Interview with Albert
Wing
1 p.m. Tuesday, February 17, 1998
by Fred Banta
This year marks the 10 year anniversary of Frank Zappa's
1988 band for the "Broadway the Hard Way" tour. This 12-man outfit
featured: Frank Zappa (guitar, vocal), Ike Willis (guitar, synth, vocal), Mike
Keneally (guitar, synth, vocal), Ed Mann (vibes, marimba, electronic
percussion), Robert Martin (keyboard, vocal), Walt Fowler (trumpet, flugelhorn),
Bruce Fowler (trombone), Paul Carman (alto sax, soprano sax, baritone sax),
Albert Wing (tenor sax), Kurt McGettrick (baritone sax, bass sax, contrabass
clarinet), Scott Thunes (bass guitar, mini-moog), and Chad Wackerman (drums,
electronic percussion). This particular touring outfit is featured on the
following Zappa records: "Broadway the Hard Way", "Make A Jazz
Noise Here", "The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life", and
"You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore" Vols. 4 & 5. (If you do not
have these records, do yourself a favor... at least buy "Make A Jazz Noise
Here".)
Members of what Frank dubbed The Best Band You Never Heard in
Your Life have been playing around as Banned from Utopia. Recent gigs in Los
Angeles have included: Ike Willis (guitar, vocal), Tommy Mars (keyboard, vocal),
Mike Miller (guitar, vocal), Walt Fowler (trumpet, flugelhorn), Bruce Fowler
(trombone), Paul Carman (alto sax), Albert Wing (tenor sax), Kurt McGettrick
(baritone sax, bass sax, contrabass clarinet), Tom Fowler (bass guitar), Arthur
Barrow (bass guitar), Chad Wackerman (drums), and Ralph Humphrey (drums). Banned
from Utopia also has a record out on Muffin Records entitled "A Tribute to
the Music of Frank Zappa", a digital recording of an earlier incarnation of
the band from their performance at the 1994 Stuttgart Festival in Germany.
(FB: Fred Banta, AW: Albert Wing)
FB: First, I just wanted to say, as a Zappa fan, I know you through the 1988
tour. And looking into your background, I see you've been a session musician for
a good number of other popular artists. That is, you probably are the only
Albert Wing...
AW: Probably (laughs)
FB: Could you tell me about any formal training you've had?
AW: Well, I started out at the age of 9 on clarinet, then switched to saxophone
about when I was 13. From there, around 18, I went to Cerritos Junior College in
Norwalk. From there, at 19, I went to Salt Lake City where I met the Fowler
brothers. And I met their dad, Bill Fowler, he helped me out and got me some
scholarships to go to school.
FB: Oh? Right on! (Dad Bill!)
AW: So I went for a couple of years there, and we kind of formed a little group.
It was the Fowler brothers and I and a couple of other guys from the University
and we gigged around town...
FB: Is this Airpocket?
AW: This was before Airpocket. Yeah, then this group became Airpocket later on,
when we moved to LA.
FB: So when you guys moved to LA, you became Airpocket.
AW: Yeah, we moved to LA in '74
FB: I had never heard of Airpocket before Ike (Willis) started talking about it
from the stage (at the Banned From Utopia gig in North Hollywood on 1/31/98
where he spotted in the audience some fans from long-ago Airpocket gigs in Salt
Lake City).
AW: Oh... Airpocket?
FB: Yeah, but I'm anxious to listen. Do you guys have CD's?
AW: We have "Breakfast for Dinosaurs" and ah...
FB: And "The Hunter". (Note: I'd thought these were Fowler Brother
records)
AW: And a very obscure album called "Fly On" which is not even
available anymore. It was recorded, I believe, in '73, maybe '74.
FB: Okay, let's go back to your musical training... who are your influences?
AW: Well, I listened to a lot of Charlie Parker, John Coltrane...a lot of the
artists from the Bebop days. And then... I checked out some "Yakety
Sax" stuff just for fun. Boots Randolph, he was kind of cool (laughs).
FB: I'm not familiar with that.
AW: Yeah, he was Mr. Yakety Sax. I checked out a lot of groups like Spike
Jones...just comedy too.
FB: Speaking of Coltrane, I'm not really a jazz guy, just stuff that I've picked
up. But Milt Jackson, the vibraphonist, is going to play down at Union Station
in a few weeks, he played on the 1959 Atlantic recording of Coltrane, and his
band is going to be playing inside Union Station, so it should be kind of an
interesting ambient concert...
AW: Yeah it's pretty cool, man. I played there.
FB: Oh you have?
AW: Yeah, pretty out-there.
FB: What did you play?
AW: Let's see... What did I do?
FB: Was it with the Da Camera Society?
AW: No, it was casual, I don't know... very obscure, you know. I do those too.
FB: I'm a volunteer for the Da Camera Society, I'm like an usher for this Milt
Jackson concert, and a couple of other concerts this season that have been real
good. One notably was Pancho Sanchez, saw them at the Mayan Theater...
AW: Oh, Pancho's great.
FB: It was so good, it really reminded me... I really thought of Frank's '88
band when I saw them... because they were really tight. The music wasn't nearly
as complex, you know, as Zappa (in fact it was downright conservative in
comparison), but it was really fun. It was great to listen to.
FB: So was your family influential on your musical upbringing?
AW: Yeah, kind of. I had an older brother that played trumpet and another little
brother that played trombone. And my brother that played trumpet, we played in a
bunch of different... various groups together, all the way until I left for
college. Then after that he kind of went his way and I kind of went my way. I
occasionally played with him when I got back, then after that I basically was
into a different scene at that point. But then musically we kind of went our
different ways. Plus he was doing really good, and I was still in college
scuffling, you know. Then I moved back to LA and started scuffling here for a
while. About '76, I started a few road gigs here and there. Then in '77, it got
a little better. It kept getting progressively better and better.
FB: I know, it takes time... Do you prefer soprano or tenor sax?
AW: I like them all. Actually in college I played a lot of baritone sax. Right
now I don't play quite as much, but I do play mainly tenor and soprano and then
occasionally I'll pick up my alto. I have equal facility on a lot of my
instruments, it's just that I kind of prefer tenor and soprano.
FB: Do you teach at all?
AW: Very rarely (laughs). If I see some promise in somebody that wants to learn
something, then I'll take them on and go yeah, I'd like to see them develop. But
as far as a total beginner... it's hard for me to take that on because, I mean,
where do you start?
FB: I know (laughs). Let's talk about your projects. I got a whole list of
everybody from Ethyl Meatplow to Paula Abdul that you've played session for...
AW: Yeah, un-huh.
FB: You've been pretty busy. You also played on Michael McDonald's "Blink
of an Eye", The Fowler Brother's "Breakfast for Dinosaurs" and
"The Hunter", and Steve Fowler's "Heartscapes".
AW: Oh that's Tom Fowler's..
FB: Is it Tom Fowler? No, Steve Fowler's "The Last Blue Sky".
AW: Uh-huh.
FB: Ethyl Meatplow, Diana Ross, George Benson, Paula Abdul, a record called
"Music Inspired by The Lion King"... I guess that was with the Fowler
Brothers as well?
AW: Right. That was a hot summer project, I believe.
FB: Impressive resume you have, I'll tell you. Well, how did you get in Frank's
band?
AW: I'd known Frank for quite a long time through Bruce and Tom. Originally I'd
auditioned for Frank's group back in '73 or '74. And actually he said that I had
the gig.
FB: In '73?
AW: Yeah.
FB: Wow.
AW: And I auditioned on the (Bebop) "Tango" and played the (Bebop)
"Tango" for him, and nailed that. And he said, "Wow, pretty
impressive." Then I waited around for a half hour at the Sunset studios
where they were rehearsing. And Frank came back and said "Sorry about
telling you you're in the band, but we really can't afford you right now, you
know." I don't know what all that was about, but I guess he'd had a meeting
with his management, but he'd already had a sax player anyway, Napoleon Murphy
Brock. So I guess they were looking for something else cause eventually he got
Don Preston and Walt Fowler to do the gig, so I felt it was probably just a
combination of a horns thing because if he already had a sax player, why have
me, you know?
FB: Yeah.
AW: So anyway, we kept in contact throughout the years until '88. I mean we had
meetings and he'd send me literature, this and that saying "I'm thinking
about doing these pieces," which I'd always take them and learn the pieces,
or try to learn them. Some were so hard, you know what I mean. It was like,
"Wow, I think I need a rhythm section on this one". But I got them
basically down and I'd try get them as good as I could without sitting there
with the band. But nothing really ever happened until late '87, I mean when we
started rehearsing. That's when it happened, so you know I was ready (laughs).
FB: Yeah. So were you a Zappa fan prior to your '73 audition?
AW: I listened to Zappa quite a bit, yeah. I wasn't a quote-unquote big fan, you
know what I mean. He was one of the people I'd listen to, you know. As I got
older I got more into his music. I guess in '73 I was a pretty big fan; yeah I'd
say so because at that point I had learned a lot of the songs, you know what I
mean, so...
FB: That was the "Over-nite Sensation" Tour, correct?
AW: Well, yeah I was checking those albums out and was going "wow, this
sounds cool." So, yeah, at that point I was pretty into his gig, and I
wanted it, you know. I wanted to be in the band and part of the whole thing, but
it just didn't happen then.
FB: Wow. In late 1987, the pre-tour rehearsals were some 4 or so months,
correct?
AW: Yeah, around 3 or 4 months.
FB: ...eight hours a day, six days a week, which is similar to what I've heard
concerning preparation for other Zappa tours. Have you ever seen anything like
that since then? I mean that kind of investment in preparing a band for tour?
AW: Not since... Frank's the only guy that I recall that put us through that.
That's a lot of training. But his book requires that.
FB: Ahh, I know. I know that.
AW: I mean Frank was, stuff was like, you couldn't just walk in, well some guys
probably could, but I couldn't just walk in and play the book.
FB: I think it was Bob Dylan who toured that same year, and I heard his pre-tour
rehearsals went on for like a week or two. Such a contrast to Frank's four
months, eight hours a day, six days a week...
AW: Yeah, it was grueling.
FB: But I'll tell you what, the product really shows that investment. The CDs
Frank has out from that tour are probably the best music in my catalogue of four
or five hundred CDs. It's not just the musicians execution of the material, but
the overall dynamics of the sound of those records, it just sounds so good to
me. And I'll tell you the jazz element that came out of that band was just, the
best. Was that the first time you played with Banned from Utopia over at the
Baked Potato? (N. Hollywood 1/31/98)
AW: Well, I jammed on the very first time they played there, remember? What was
it, last year some time? I walked into the second set and jammed on
"Echidna's Arf" and "Village" (Of The Sun).
FB: I missed that. I only saw the first show. That's why I got tickets for both
shows this time around.
AW: Oh yeah?
FB: Yeah. I saw both shows on the 31st. I really loved it.
AW: Great! Yeah. Did you see Paul Carmen? I think he came in.
FB: No, I didn't.
AW: He came in the second day, I guess...
FB: Oh really?
AW: So we had the full-on tour-de-force there for the horn section.
FB: Yeah? Man, I'm sorry I missed that! At the show we went to, my wife
overheard Ike Willis telling a fan that Vinnie Colaiuta was going to sit in on
the next night's show. Did that happen?
AW: No, he didn't come in.
FB: Yeah?
AW: No, I was expecting him to come in, but you know...
FB: God, I'd love to see that.
AW: Yeah that would be great to see him. Vinnie's a guy, like I say, that could
walk in and play the book (laughs).
FB: Yeah.
AW: He's just one of those kind of drummers, you know?
FB: I've seen Banned from Utopia with Chad Wackerman and with Ralph Humphrey on
drums, and I enjoyed both of them. I'm a bit partial to Chad. He played some
licks that just knocked me out of my seat practically...
AW: Yeah, I think Chad could walk in and nail the book too, you know.
FB: Incredible talent. So do you keep in touch with any of the other 1988 Zappa
band alumni?
AW: Well, you know, me and Walt Fowler; we do Diana Ross' gig. I still do
sessions with Bruce (Fowler) and Walt (Fowler) a lot, and occasionally Kurt
(McGettrick). But that's about it. Everybody else kind of went their separate
ways. I don't know where everybody else went, but they're apparently doing their
thing.
FB: I hear Robert Martin is the musical director for "Cybil".
AW: Yeah, he's hanging. They're also an item, I think. So that's nice work if
you can get it. (laughs)
FB: I'll tell you. Mike Keneally is banging away with his band. They're going to
play in LA in a couple of weeks here. (2/21 @ Lumpy Gravy)
AW: Ahh. That's great! Keneally's cool. He's a great player.
FB: Yeah, he really is. He's transcribing his audio journal from the '88 tour on
the Internet. He's putting it out on his web page on each day's prospective 10
year anniversary. One of the things that struck me was when he was talking about
the memorization required to play in that band. It was in my view, almost
superhuman. To recall all those songs. You guys rehearsed 75 or so songs for the
tour...
AW: And I think probably, we were maybe up to 120 that we were capable of
playing at any given point.
FB: Absolutely incredible.
AW: Yeah, that was amazing, I tell you.
FB: Yeah.
AW: The real amazing thing was that (Airpocket & Banned from Utopia
guitarist) Mike Miller called me up a couple of weeks before the Utopia gig and
asked me to do the gig. So I ran out to the garage and got my book (laughs).
FB: Really?
AW: Yeah, and started riffling through, trying to get everything together, you
know. So, I mean we did a few rehearsals and a lot of it came back. Then all of
it came back on our first gig, so the first night was really good.
FB: Yeah, I REALLY liked it. I wanted to get your perspective on the gig... I
was thoroughly entertained, and there were several passages that just really
moved me.
AW: Oh wow, cool.
FB: Yeah.
AW: Yeah the first night was good, I mean for me, because it was the first
official night that I was back in the band, you know what I mean. So I was all,
I was really excited. My energy level was way up there.
FB: Yeah, it was. You played some sweet solos.
AW: Thanks.
FB: Yeah. That was really good. And you know it was so nice to hear that band
play in a little dinky club with the members of (what Frank dubbed) The Best
Band You Never Heard in Your Life. That was just beautiful.
AW: Yeah that was a lot of fun. We're trying to get some other bookings. I'm not
sure what's happening in the future, but I think we're shooting for maybe
possibly April, I don't know.
FB: I saw an ad in the LA Weekly for a Banned from Utopia gig at Billboard live
on March 20th.
AW: Yeah. I believe that might be canceled as we speak. It's a scheduling thing
with the members of the band. I don't think everybody can make it.
FB: That's too bad.
AW: Yeah that's a drag, cause I'm ready to do it.
FB: Yeah, well I'm ready to listen.
AW: Cool!
FB: Any plans on getting any other Zappa alumni for vocalists?
AW: I'm not sure. I think Ike's our main guy pretty much right now.
FB: I love him.
AW: He's great. I mean, he knows gobs of material. Robert Martin did a lot of
it, a major part. We actually asked him to come down and sit in and sing
"Zomby Woof". So, you never know, things might change, maybe there
might be some musical chairs happening, I'm not sure. But I think Ike's the main
staple for our vocals. Maybe they might add another vocalist just to make it, I
don't know, you never know. Cause, I kind of like Frank's doo-wop scene.
FB: Ahh! Me too.
AW: ...with the three-part harmony, you know and all that.
FB: Absolutely.
AW: That was, like, cool.
FB: Yeah. (laughs) He's the one that made me come out of the closet about
doo-wop, I love doo-wop!
AW: Oh really?
FB: Yeah (laughs)!
AW: Yeah, I mean I'm a closet doo-wop guy. I dig that stuff. I don't want to
admit it, really, but I like listening to it cause it's cool (laughs).
FB: I know. One of my favorite albums by Frank is "Cruising with Ruben and
the Jets".
AW: (laughs) Yeah, that was cool.
FB: So, do you want to share any anecdotes from the 1988 tour?
AW: Let's see... I had a lot of fun, I'll tell you that.
FB: You know, I have about 20 different audience recordings of shows from that
tour. One of the things that strikes me on a lot of the shows was the joviality.
Frank seems really happy. I've also heard of moments that Frank was singing to
his daughter, Diva; and his kids were doing cartwheels on stage.
AW: That would be like the Philadelphia, DC show, around there. Yeah the
beginning of the tour was very, very... I think that was a real good part of the
tour, at the very beginning. Then toward the middle and the end of the tour, of
course you heard what happened about... I guess, you know. Just that, kind of
like everybody was, it was kind of falling apart as far as personalities, I
guess. I mean I didn't have any problem with anybody. I mean I straightened it
out with everybody. There was a little friction in the band between certain
members, I mean I was not without friction, but I resolved most of my stuff
before I got on the road with who ever I had a problem with. I would just talk
to him and see what was up. So like in the middle of the ‘88 tour, I mean, I
understood everybody's side, you know, and I just let Frank know that whatever
happens, I'm still ready. I still want to go on the road and play because I'm
playing with him, you know what I mean? Whoever, whatever happens, you know, I'm
on his side, totally.
FB: Right, totally.
AW: And that's what I let him know. That's what I felt... because I wanted to
play like... you know you wait that long to play with Frank, I just wanted to
continue. I was just getting started on this gig and I was like the new kid on
the block basically, or one of the new kids on the block. I just still had a lot
of that energy... to be used, you know?
FB: Yeah.
AW: Also, it was cool because I met a lot of interesting people on the road, you
know. A lot of different types of characters that would kind of follow the band
around from gig to gig. Kind of like a lot of Dead-head types that would manage
to scrape up enough money to get to the next gig. It was cool! You get to know a
lot of people on the road and you see them at every gig. You know it's really
cool. It made life interesting and it made the tour go a lot easier because it
became more of like... you felt like you had a road family (laughs). It was very
cool.
FB: Yeah (laughs). Definitely, Frank has that contingent of hard core fans.
AW: Yeah it was pretty cool. You know we had regulars and once in a while he'd
invite them up on stage and like do what they do. That's cool. Yeah, that's
pretty much... I mean you probably already know about, I guess it was in
Musician's Magazine? Frank gave that interview about why the band broke up?
FB: Yeah, I've read some of that. My understanding is that Scott Thunes (who was
managing the pre-tour rehearsals in LA while Frank ran around town to promote
the tour) was a little overzealous during rehearsals and that caused some
resentment and misunderstanding and it kind of deteriorated into that. And I
also understand that Frank had mentioned during the tour, in the middle of it,
that he was going to hire another bass player to replace Scott. And I think that
when Frank came around and polled the band, "will you continue the tour
with Scott?", it seems that the band members who voted against Scott
figured that Frank would say, "Okay, we'll just hire another bass
player".
AW: Right. That was the best case scenario to continue the tour, I thought. But
then Frank decided that well, you know, hey. And it's his band; he decides who's
going to be in the band.
FB: That's right.
AW: And that's basically what happened. He said we're going to continue with
this band, and then left it at that.
FB: One of the things that struck me the last time I saw Banned From Utopia; I
was watching Arthur Barrow. And I thought, you know, he would have been a great
replacement for Thunes, you know, but...
AW: Yeah, Arthur's a very great player.
FB: I agree. You know the last I heard of Scott was that he was working last
year in a club in San Francisco as a doorman...
AW: Who, Thunes?
FB: Yeah, and that he's out of the music business.
AW: Yeah, I heard he quit playing completely.
FB: Yeah. That's really incredible.
AW: Yeah. That's amazing. But he's, you know, that's like his personality and
temperament. He runs hot and cold, maybe he'll pick it up again eventually.
FB: Yeah, that's what I hope too.
AW: But to sum it up, it was just a groove to work with and be around Frank.
FB: Oh, yeah.
AW: You know, being on the road is tough, but it was just... considering you're
working with Frank and hanging with him, it was really cool.
FB: Yeah.
AW: That's what I dug.
FB: The wonderful moments that Frank's '88 band created...
AW: Yeah, I can look back and say you know what? I had a great time. I wish it
hadn't of stopped so soon.
(FB: Me too.)